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TZ250
16th June 2010, 02:22 AM
Everyone,
I'd like to start building a 4" rocket. I'm still doing research for now. It will be 1-2 weeks before I buy a kit, but I wanted to consult the knowledgeable folks here on TRF first.

So, which kit would you choose, for a newbie, and why? I'm here to learn! :D

http://www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com/Products/btkits.html

http://www.wildmanrocketry.com/HTML/Kits/Perf-Rocketry/Competitor4-FG.htm

Pantherjon
16th June 2010, 02:39 AM
I would go with the Competitor 4..Main reason being the 75mm motor mount, you can always adapt down until you get 75mm hardware..

pcotcher
16th June 2010, 02:46 AM
http://www.giantleaprocketry.com/products_kits_talon4.asp

Great looking rocket, perhaps it is one of the best designs out there - and about as premium a kit as you can find.

You can get it in the basic phenolic setup, or go for the deluxe all glass version.

Shade
16th June 2010, 02:46 AM
I voted other, as I do not have any experience with either of those
manufacturers.

I have built (and repaired) LOC's 4" V-2 fun and slightly challenging build.
I am going to repaint with the concept of a RAT ROD or better called a RAT
ROC. Gotta make up some decals for it.

And built (waiting on paint) PML's AMRAAM 4 I would agree with the 75mm
MMT comment above and I plan on this being my L2 rocket. The PML comes
with the MMT adapters as part of the kit, I also purchased the HAMR for
motor retention. Not a particularly challenging build but I was going for basic
yet cool looking.

MarkII
16th June 2010, 03:02 AM
Well, the ARR Predator 10K does not have a 4" airframe. The Competitor 4 is almost 2' taller than the ARR Blue Phenix and is fiberglass vs. Blue Tube. OTOH, a "Basic Blues" version of the Blue Phenix is an astonishing $109.99, or $90 less than the Competitor. It can also be flown on Level 1 motors, while the Competitor requires a minimum of a J. If you want something that you can use for Level 3, go for the Competitor. If you want a rocket that you will actually be able to afford to fly regularly, go for the BP. The awesome-looking blue wonder gets my vote. At that price, it may also get my order sometime soon.

davalf
16th June 2010, 03:42 AM
I really liked the Madcow Super DX3. Very easy build and it is a great flyer. But, that Giant Leap Talon 4 is pretty nice. A little pricey for a first HPR.

Dave

BobH48
16th June 2010, 03:53 AM
I would go with the Competitor 4..Main reason being the 75mm motor mount, you can always adapt down until you get 75mm hardware..You're recommending this for a first time HPR kit just because it has a 75mm motor mount? :confused2:

troj
16th June 2010, 03:55 AM
Everyone,
I'd like to start building a 4" rocket. I'm still doing research for now. It will be 1-2 weeks before I buy a kit, but I wanted to consult the knowledgeable folks here on TRF first.

So, which kit would you choose, for a newbie, and why? I'm here to learn! :D

http://www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com/Products/btkits.html

http://www.wildmanrocketry.com/HTML/Kits/Perf-Rocketry/Competitor4-FG.htm

If you're looking at fiberglass, I'd suggest this kit from Wildman, instead.

http://www.wildmanrocketry.com/default.asp?groupid=1&groupid1=612121482&prodid=334640281138891

-Kevin

dixontj93060
16th June 2010, 03:56 AM
I would rather get a Binder or LOC kit and add a wrap of fiberglass saving mucho $$'s.

SSenesy
16th June 2010, 04:10 AM
My vote is for the 3" Wildman dual deploy. It's a very complete kit and will stand up to just about anything. You can build/fly single deploy for your level 1, then add the av-bay and go dual deploy for level 2.

My 3" Wildman is my bread and butter rocket. While I've never flown it single deploy, it's flown on everything from a small J to CTI's L935. Follow the instructions when you build it and it'll just keep coming back for more.

WillMarchant
16th June 2010, 04:21 AM
I like the Binder Design Excel Plus 54mm with one of his avionics bays...

MarkII
16th June 2010, 04:26 AM
Let's see: Performance 4" Competitor, $200. :eyepop: 3" Wildman DD, $286. :y: ARR Basic Blues Blue Phenix Senior (4"), $110. :D As the OP said, this will be his first high power rocket. (No M flights, at least for awhile.)

As for looks:

Performance Competitor - meh :rolleyes:
Wildman DD - nice :) (It had better be, at that price.)
Blue Phenix - COOOL! :headbang: :w:

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Addendum: Will's suggestion, a Binder Designs Excel Plus, looks like it would probably be a fine choice, too.

UPscaler
16th June 2010, 04:44 AM
Any Binder design 4 inch kits would be good! As well as the mad cow patriot

MarkII
16th June 2010, 04:48 AM
Yeah, skip the cobalt beauty. That way, it'll still be available for me. :D Besides, I like being the only one at a launch with a particular rocket. ;)

TZ250
16th June 2010, 05:31 AM
Wow, thanks guys. I appreciate the suggestions.

I forgot to mention that I plan on building (in a week or so) a Wildman Dark Star Lite as my first L1 rocket. I know what you're thinking and you're right, I should have mentioned that in the original post. I was hurrying to dinner. My mind was ahead of my fingers on the keyboard. :o

http://tinyurl.com/26mf3c4

The Dark Star Lite seems basic and easy to build and it's light enough to fly on G's for general field work and classroom demonstrations. The Drago looks good, but it's 0.4 pounds heavier.

Please continue with the suggestions. I'm learning from the pro's and con's mentioned. Also, I ordered a new copy of Modern Highpower Rocketry 2 by Mark Canepa today. I have a lot to learn. I'm sure that I'll have more questions in the very near future.

Thanks again! :D

troj
16th June 2010, 12:26 PM
Wow, thanks guys. I appreciate the suggestions.

I forgot to mention that I plan on building (in a week or so) a Wildman Dark Star Lite as my first L1 rocket. I know what you're thinking and you're right, I should have mentioned that in the original post. I was hurrying to dinner. My mind was ahead of my fingers on the keyboard. :o

http://tinyurl.com/26mf3c4

The Dark Star Lite seems basic and easy to build and it's light enough to fly on G's for general field work and classroom demonstrations. The Drago looks good, but it's 0.4 pounds heavier.

Tim's kits tend to be fairly complete, as opposed to Performance Rocketry, which are very much bare bones kits. The Wildman kits also have instructions available, where anything from Performance Rocketry, at best, has an exploded diagram.

An important decision for you is whether you want conventional materials (cardboard, phenolic, Blue Tube, etc) or composites. It changes the technique a bit for construction, as well as the cost.

-Kevin

H_Rocket
16th June 2010, 12:51 PM
A binder Design California Kid is a real nice kit - Consider it.

(If you want to be a bit more exotic, consider the Galaxy or Velociraptor)

GaryT
16th June 2010, 01:49 PM
Wow, thanks guys. I appreciate the suggestions.

I forgot to mention that I plan on building (in a week or so) a Wildman Dark Star Lite as my first L1 rocket. Thanks again! :D

Then go with the NEW 4" Wildman Dark Star. 75mm MM ta boot! Plus it all depends on what you want to get out of the bird. The ones you listed are too dissimilar to vote for one or the other.

Pantherjon
16th June 2010, 02:52 PM
Then go with the NEW 4" Wildman Dark Star. 75mm MM ta boot! Plus it all depends on what you want to get out of the bird. The ones you listed are too dissimilar to vote for one or the other.

Tim has released the 4" Darkstar?:confused2: It isn't on his web site..I have the DSL(Dark Star Lite) kit..It is a complete kit..Awaiting my attention in my build pile to get to eventually..:rolleyes:

GaryT
16th June 2010, 03:28 PM
They where introduced at LDRS 29.

See this thread. (http://www.rocketryplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5880&page=5)

pcotcher
16th June 2010, 04:41 PM
Wow, thanks guys. I appreciate the suggestions.

Please continue with the suggestions. I'm learning from the pro's and con's mentioned. Also, I ordered a new copy of Modern Highpower Rocketry 2 by Mark Canepa today. I have a lot to learn. I'm sure that I'll have more questions in the very near future.

Thanks again! :D

No problem - it is a fun discussion - I'm in the market for a couple of new projects myself - so seeing everyone's input always brings new options to the table.

One thing that will help steer the input are your criteria for the project:

1) What do you want the rocket to do - how high of performance are you seeing? More importantly, what kind of motors do you want to fly?
2) Simple or complex? Are you considering Dual Deploy, or anything more than up, pop, down.
3) What is your budget?
4) Do you want a kit that's more complete/deluxe, or something bare bones that you can outfit yourself?
5) Is the design of the rocket even a consideration? Do you want 3FNC or something with a little more style?

The recommendations here are all over the board.

My personal experience is having built a couple of Loc kits - they're an excellent entry level kit, low price, but a little skimpy on features, etc. (See my thread about L1 Lessons Learned) The parachutes are sometimes marginal (especially if you upgrade anything), and the fin stock provided in the smaller kits tend to be a little thin (not my conclusion, but the conclusion of my local club after inspecting my "crack").

Binder and Mad Cow are on my radar now for my next projects - I like the Binder Raptor and the Mad Cow PAC-3 - 4" rockets with good design, and nice features in the kits.

I'd love to find a BSD Thor (or have those come out again) as that's one of the best looking 4" rockets out there.

Of course my recommendation stands with the GLR 4" Talon, one of the best looking designs, and a ultra-premo kit. While there are others out there that are less expensive, the extras included in the GLR kit are more than worth the difference in price. Check out the list of features on the link that I posted above.

Depending on the performance that you want, I'd be looking for a 54mm mount, as there's a huge range of motors that will be supported by that, and if it's a light enough design, you can always reduce down to a 38mm mount and have the full range of H to L available.

Just a few rambling thoughts to help the discussion along.

Handeman
17th June 2010, 02:22 AM
From your suggestions, it seems you want to fly high and fast. I'm not sure you want to move into 4" L2 high and fast without dual deploy. Some of the kits have dd and I would recommend it.

One thing I've found that helps narrow down what I want to build is to spend some time with a program like VCP. By the time you finish a design, you'll know what it is you want to build. Then it's easy to find the right kit, or just scratch build it.

MarkII
17th June 2010, 04:33 AM
Hmm. No votes for the ARR Predator 10K. That fact alone gets it onto my personal wish list. ;)

MK, chronic contrarian

P.S. I remember, now that troj and others have pointed it out, that the Wildman and GLR kits are, of course, jam-packed with really nice features (as is also the case with the fully-spec'd, i. e., not basic, ARR kits), which more than justify their higher price points. I happen to be more than a little price sensitive, so deals such as the ARR Basic Blues kits appeal to me (while the full-priced high end FG kits, not so much), but you may be in a different position, with a different set of priorities.

Pantherjon
17th June 2010, 05:06 AM
They where introduced at LDRS 29.

See this thread. (http://www.rocketryplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5880&page=5)

'I see' says the blind man..:roll:

Thanks for reminding me of that Gary!

BTW, LOVE the blast caps!:)

TZ250
17th June 2010, 06:27 AM
No problem - it is a fun discussion - I'm in the market for a couple of new projects myself - so seeing everyone's input always brings new options to the table.

One thing that will help steer the input are your criteria for the project:

1) What do you want the rocket to do - how high of performance are you seeing? More importantly, what kind of motors do you want to fly?
2) Simple or complex? Are you considering Dual Deploy, or anything more than up, pop, down.
3) What is your budget?
4) Do you want a kit that's more complete/deluxe, or something bare bones that you can outfit yourself?
5) Is the design of the rocket even a consideration? Do you want 3FNC or something with a little more style?

The recommendations here are all over the board.

Binder and Mad Cow are on my radar now for my next projects - I like the Binder Raptor and the Mad Cow PAC-3 - 4" rockets with good design, and nice features in the kits.

I'd love to find a BSD Thor (or have those come out again) as that's one of the best looking 4" rockets out there.

Of course my recommendation stands with the GLR 4" Talon, one of the best looking designs, and a ultra-premo kit. While there are others out there that are less expensive, the extras included in the GLR kit are more than worth the difference in price. Check out the list of features on the link that I posted above.

Depending on the performance that you want, I'd be looking for a 54mm mount, as there's a huge range of motors that will be supported by that, and if it's a light enough design, you can always reduce down to a 38mm mount and have the full range of H to L available.

Just a few rambling thoughts to help the discussion along.
Pcotcher, those are great questions. Thank you for cutting to the core of the new project! :)

Q1: I'd like a versatile rocket. Since I don't have experience in highpower rockets, I really can't give a complete answer right now. Please know that I'm not trying to be vague; I know that there are things that I do not know.

Q2: Dual deploy. The Dark Star Lite will be my basic rocket.

Q3: My budget is tight, but sufficient to cover about any 4" rocket that I want. I can only do that because I'm selling a couple of things on eBay to fund this project. The gypsy ways of a rocketeer...;)

Q4: I'd like a nicer kit. The L3 project will be very different. I must be crazy even to mention that! :D

Q5: I'm basically a number/spec sheet kind of guy, but I do admit to preferring the look of some rockets to others. I think that the Always Ready Blue Phenix looks neat, but I also like the Performance Rocketry Competitor 4". The Wildman 4" Darkstar suddenly sounds appealing. The GLR Talon 4 looks great! However, every kit on the site that I saw was out of stock.

I like the idea of 54mm motor mount and adapters for H through L.

pcotcher
17th June 2010, 02:00 PM
Just e-mail Kent @ GLR, and he should be able to setup an order for you. My impression is that most of the kits are made to order, so they're not regularly listed as "in stock" on the site. I think that way they can charge your card when they ship vs. when you order - allowing them the time to get the rocket "kitted" up for you.

BsSmith
17th June 2010, 04:57 PM
Another thing that you could look at is the Wildman Eagle Claw 4. It's pretty much the same rocket, but I don't think it comes with as much hardware and instructions.

pcotcher
17th June 2010, 06:40 PM
I thought the same thing, but when compared side by side - by somebody that had the kit already (before I made my choice), there really wasn't a comparison. GLR wins hands down.

ScrapDaddy
17th June 2010, 06:57 PM
ARR is a great company, and the blue tube is very tough stuff. ARR kits seem very compleate, topped with av. Bays and recovery gear. I have only purchased 2 items from them, their av bay and a BT, they were top notch. The Predator 10K looks awesome, and it has a shread warrenty, and the smaller version, the predator Jr, has a review on EMRR, in that review, a J motor catoed, and only the aft 3 inches were damaged, the outer BT itself was untouched. The tubes are pre slotted and the fin can makes for a quick build.
I have a little poem I wrote about the blue tube:
Roses are red,
Blue tubes are blue,
Epoxy isn't needed,
As you can use wood glue,
You can use it as couch,
Play a game of golf with it too,
it makes a perfect *light saber,
Made just for you!,
You will also be licking
As blue tube tastes like chicken!
(the chicken part is true, but the flavor is a bit weak.)


SD

stickershock23
17th June 2010, 06:59 PM
I really liked the Madcow Super DX3. Very easy build and it is a great flyer. But, that Giant Leap Talon 4 is pretty nice. A little pricey for a first HPR.

Dave

im going to agree with dave.. the Super DX3 is a sweet kit, and the price is right for a first HPR kit...

By the way TZ nice bike... I just sold my RZ350.. Loved that bike..

TZ250
18th June 2010, 09:58 PM
By the way TZ nice bike... I just sold my RZ350.. Loved that bike..
Thanks, Stickershock. I'm a big fan of TZ's. I also used to have a TZ125. As for the RZ350, they are great bikes. I've not rode one in many years.

Everyone, thanks for the information. I'm still doing research and I'm learning from everyone here. This has been a fun thread.

I just ordered my Dark Star Lite kit!:)