XL Lander

[Bone Daddy]

For those of you that followed and opined re my Does This Look Stable thread, this is an upscale of that beast. When I finally found a stable design that I liked it turned out look pretty good and fun to fly. Nice slow take off and easy to track. A C6-3 is the sweet spot. Actually went out and flew it 2x today when I had to run out to the store to pick up a few things.

First flight was a C6-3 with a top flight 12" chute. Beautiful. So good I loaded up another C6-3 and shot it off and watched it hit apogee and then watched it turn over and start heading back towards planet earth. Chute now........... now?........... now? pretty please? I thought all was lost and then pop. Chute deployed with enough time to effect a safe landing. It was right about then that I wondered if I might not have stuffed a C6-5 into her by mistake? Pulled out the spent motor and sure enough there its was printed clearly on the casing: C6-5. Oooops. At least the story had a happy ending.

So I've decided to upscale it to a BT-80 bird: code name XL-Lander. The plan is to fly it on E or F motors.

So here's a pic of the completed bird I'm upscaling.

[Bone Daddy]

The original idea of using the flat top pods was a nod to the fact that the laws of earthly aerodynamic design don't hold in the no atmospheric conditions found on the moon or in space. No molecules, no friction, no problem.

This beast needs 4 pods. Each is 6" of BT60 capped on both ends with 0.30" sheet styrene (evergreen scale models item # 9030).

Step 1. cut pods to length

Step 2. glue balsa blocks into BT to support the cap (pic 1)

Step 3. seal the top of the blocks with super glue

Step 4. glue rough cut cap to top and bottom using super glue (pic 2 and 3)

Step 5. trim cap using scissors. trimming a little bit at a time (pic 4)

Step 6. use a fine double cut flat file to even up the cap with the BT

Step 7. sandpaper finishes the job

Step 8. strake is attached to the pod

Ready to prime.

I've used this same technique using balsa caps on both flat and 45% pods.

[Bone Daddy]

First pic cap trimmed with scissors before final shaping with the file than sand paper.

Pod with finished end caps

Finished pod

End of tonight's build.

[Bone Daddy]

Not much done tonight.

Added the four strakes the pods will be glued to.

That's it for now.

[Micromeister]

Very Nifty models Bone Daddy.

[Bone Daddy]

Thanks.

Tomorrow is the official last day of the school year so........................ summer building season is upon as again.

[Bone Daddy]

I've been reading a book that involves the use of shuttles from a base ship to the surface of a planet for exploration. This has provided the inspiration to make this look like a working vessel - and allows me to claim that all rough finish, lack of perfect symmetry of surface features, etc. were all intentional, rather than the result of a mediocre builder :-)

Anyway, back to the build.

[Bone Daddy]

The strakes between the pods are glued in place.
Decided to use bond paper for the fillets. Here before they were untrimmed.

[Bone Daddy]

Missed a step.

A plastic strut was epoxied to the BT. Before the strakes were attached.

It was originally planned to encircle the entire BT, but it snapped while being wrapped so this was added to fill the gap. Sort of looks planned, but the observant observer (which you all are) will see it is not perfectly aligned with the strake (but see caveat above regarding asymmetrical features).

[Bone Daddy]

I remembered to glue the launch lug and mask for the pod glue point before priming. I used a standard and 1/4" lug just in case.

First coats of primer applied. Did not bother to fill fins or spirals before priming. A few coats of primer and sanding will do it for me on this one.

Time to start on the motor mount. The plan is to use D's, E's and F's if possible.

Not looking forward to the fins so saving them for last.

[Bone Daddy]

Got tired of gray, so I shot some semi gloss white over it. Nothing fancy. I stepped way out of my flat white comfort zone here. Flat white is so forgiving. Note artificially distressed nose cone.

A quick dry fit without the fins just to see what it looks like. Not the daintiest thing is it?

About those fins. Time to pull out SolidWorks (yeah it's overkill, but I have it. Actually, never made a 3d sketch it and really don't know how. That's just plain stupid) and draw up some fins. My buddy can feed the file and a gallon of Popov (it's a New Russia Intergalactic Mining Consortium rocket after all) into his laser cutter and viola 4 perfect fins that I'll say I cut out with the same 6 year old single edge razor blade I used when I was building rockets as a kid 40 years ago (a 59 word (actually 56 word, 3 number) sentence that isn't a run on sentence, wait now it's 71 words and 6 numbers and still not a run on).

Figuring in cost overruns, redesign fees and retooling, supply shortages, a general lack of talent coupled with overall poor planning, I anticipate an unfinished test flight by the end of the month.

[Bone Daddy]

This vehicle has been christened the Orianthi in honor of the Universe's next guitar god who happens to be a goddess. Where is it is ungainly in form, sharp in lines and utilitarian in function, it is named in honor of grace, beauty and artistic genius.

Her CD Believe is phenomenal. Think I'm kidding? Check out the guitar duet with Steve Vai. Perhaps the best news is that little girls (and everyone else in the known and likely unknown Universe, regardless of species) can aspire to shred with best rather than ............. well whatever it is that Miley Cirus does.

So Orianthi (just in case you're a rocket chick (please don't read the use of "chick" as sexist, I just never liked "Dudette") and following this not to be missed thread), this one's for you.

[Bone Daddy]

It's been said that given a room full of chimpanzees with sufficient rocket supplies they would eventually build a rocket superior to anything I could ever hope to build. I know for a fact that this is patently false. It would take no more than 2 chimpanzees and a long weekend for the paint to dry.

After all, even a chimpanzee would have checked that the balsa wood they pulled from the closet was the same thickness as the strake it was to be glued to. And this was after I decided to cut them out myself rather than drive the 2 hour round trip to use my buddies laser cutter.

From this point forward these 4 fins will be referred to as concept fins used only to ensure that the shape was what I was looking for before I wasted the more expensive, thicker balsa if a design modification was indicated. Looks good, so I will proceed with cutting out the actual fins that will be used on the rocket.

[Bone Daddy]

Fins are cut out and papered. Waiting for the glue to dry.

Nose cone is finished. The dowel lets me add nose weight. Fender washer slip right over it. I drill a pilot hole before screwing in the screweye. Once I have the weight right, I'll trim the dowel and superglue the screweye in place to be safe.

Still need to paint the pods. Just about out of Rust-o-leum filler primer so I'll be switching over to Rust-o-leum automobile primer which I have on hand. Haven't decided on the color yet. Again, it'll be one of the colors I have on hand. Probably blue or orange. I'll see what the chimpanzees think.

[Bone Daddy]

Been painting the pods for the Orianthi.

Note to self: next time paint the body tubes before gluing on the end caps.

[Bone Daddy]

I had to go in today for mandatory, no pay training on the new teacher evaluation system that will be in place for next year. Robbed of a perfectly good day of summer vacation (violins playing in the background).

2 pods glued in place. I'm out of Elmer's Wood Glue, so I'm using Titebond II which I had on hand. I forgot what a different beast it is. Setup time is much longer than the Elmer's.

So back to the Xbox while I wait for the next pod to set......................

[Bone Daddy]

Pod 3 is glued and drying.

Pod 4 needs some touch up before it can be attached. Pretty much 99.99999% humidity today, so no painting. Still deciding what to do with the caps of the pods.

Need to finish papering the fins. No atmosphere where the Orianthi works so no need airfoils needed. All edges will be square.

Time to make dinner. Today's appetizer is prunes wrapped on prosciutto baked at 350 until crisp (Sweet, yet salty. To die for. You should try them). Steak with fresh asparagus for dinner. Dessert is an unknown at this point in time. There has to something hiding out somewhere in the kitchen............

[Bone Daddy]

Hmmm, the closer the Orianthi gets to completion, the more ungainly she looks. Maybe the fins will help. Let's see how she looks with one of the fins held in place. Nope. No help. She's not going to win any best of show trophies on cruise night at the Restaurant at the End of the Universe.

Hmmmm, I wonder if she's going to shred at lift off under the roar of an F motor? That would surely be anticlimactic and lend even more credence to the 2 chimpanzee scenario.

[Bone Daddy]

Bit of a set back here at the Bone Daddy rocket fabrication building. For some reason the paint on one of the pods didn't cure. I wrapped some tape to mask off an area and it smudged. Some of the damage in the picture was from my picking at to see what was going on. It looks like the top coat didn't bond to the primer. Both were Rust-o-leum products and I've never had this problem before. The other pods seem to be OK.

Decided it would just be easier to fabricate a new pod than to mess with this one. This will be task 1 for tomorrow so I can get all 4 pods glued in pace.

[Bone Daddy]

4th pod is cut to length and painted. Decided not to bother with primer. Spirals are a little easier to see, but all my rockets are meant to be admired from a distance. Giving the paint plenty of time to dry before adding the end caps.

Here is the tube cutting jig I use. It's actually a jig I made for a previous project, but it works in a pinch. I use the tape as a guide for the razor. So razor in one hand and rotate tube. Someday I'll build a proper tube cutter, but for now it get's the job done.

Safety always come first in Bone Daddy's rocket lab and one of its prime directives is that this jig is never, ever to be placed on the floor even for a microsecond. I know for a fact that sooner or later (probably sooner) i'd step on it and that would hurt (not to mention it would piss off my wife (and rightfully so) that I got so much blood on the carpet).

The first two prime directives (I bet you thought there could only be 1 prime directive. Well, if you did, you were wrong. I can have as many as I want) are:

1) start with 10 end with 10 (fingers)

1) start with 2 end with 2 (eyes)

[Bone Daddy]

I've been looking for the ruler for my small adjustable square. Found it while cutting the end of an expended D for my motor block. It was on my band saw (no doubt exactly where I left it last). Funny how you always find things in the last place you look.

Finished the motor mount. Made it to handle the 3.75" 24mm motors knowing I could easy adapt it for the 2.75" motors.

The motor mount tube is Semroc BT50. I reinforced it with a weird diameter bt that slides over the BT50. I then doubled it at the nozzle end. I beefed it up because I'm planning to friction fit for now. Don't want it to buckle. The end is also treated with super glue.

That's Duke playing hide and seek. Took us forever to find him. He's quite good at it.

[Bone Daddy]

Last piece of the motor mount equation was to add a nozzle. Final design is a piece of BT60 with 8 heat sinks. It has a BT60 to BT50 centering ring that slips over the end of the motor. It has a 1/2 inch over hang. Not sure yet if it'll be glued in place or just friction fit. Might be easier to change motors if it can be removed.

It'll be sprayed flat black. No filling on BT or heat exchangers.

Now that I have a nozzle, it's time to glue in the motor mount.

Pod 4 is dry so it's ready for the end caps.

Still need to finish papering the fins. Ran out of bond paper. Another unanticipated cost overrun (but then are any cost overruns anticipated?).

[Bone Daddy]

Eh, New Russian Federation we have a problem...........................

The Bone Daddy Rocket Lab is flat out of flat black paint. This is a travesty. This is like the IRS running out of citizen tax returns to audit.

Next best thing: Rust-o-leum satin maroon (actual color name unknown). I really like this color so the lack of flat black turned out to be a nonstarter after all. The problem on the horizon is that the fins were to be pained flat black. In the end, this may be an unavoidable cost overrun in response to procuring a new can of flat black for the fins.

Motor mount is glued in place.

[Bone Daddy]

Finally, all 4 pods are mounted.

Test fit the nozzle before giving it a finishing coat. So far so good.

The shock cord at this point in time is 72" (nominally) of 400# Kevlar thread. It's actually 2 36" pieces tied together. That's about 2.5 x length so I'll probably end up adding another 36" length. No elastic will be used.

I've had problems in the past with shock cord tied together getting hung up on the knot upon deployment. This problem was solved by using a piece of shrink tubing to cover the knot.

This list leading to completion is getting shorter by the hour.

- finish papering, painting and mounting fins

- complete painting

- need a fully loaded weight to determine size of chute.

- swing test and trim as needed.

That's it.

T minus 72 hours estimated to lift off.

[Bone Daddy]

I experienced problems wit my fins bonding to styrene end cap on the first lander. To solve this I'm using an L-bracket made of styrene superglued to the paper on the fin.

The bracket is flush with the top edge so there is a styrene to styrene bond on each side of the balsa.

The bracket on the inside edge overlaps the strake on each side to give a little more support.

The pix are of my mock up.

[Bone Daddy]

Took a quick supplies inventory at the Bone Daddy Rocket Lab and it doesn't look good. The cupboard is bare. We're out of or almost out of:

- glue
superglue
Elmer's wood glue
- bond paper
- spraypaint:
Rust-o-leum satin colonial red (looked up color on website)
Flat black
Flat white
- BT-60
- BT-50
- motors:
1/2A
A8-3
All B
C6-3 (1 on hand)
C6-5 (2 on hand)
E? (for the Orianthi)
F? (for the Orianthi)
- refrigerator (seems the compressor went out last night :-( Hmm maybe this should be listed first?)
- ice cream (see above)

I will definitely have to put off hiring a chimpanzee assistant for awhile, at least until the fridge is fixed or replaced.

[Bone Daddy]

Today was a great day of rocket building if you like cutting out and assembling a seemingly endless supply of little parts. Otherwise, if you are like me, a root canal would be a viable alternative.

Fins are finished except for the paint. It probably makes sense to just paint them semigloss white (which I have enough of) to match the fuselage, but there us no rule stated or even implied that things must make sense in the Bone Daddy Rocket Lab.

Broke out the toolbox and ohmmeter and did some exploratory surgery on the fridge. Prelim findings were actually quite good. The compressor motor windings checked out fin so there is a good chance the starter relay is bad. I'll pick one up in the morning (just so happens a Hobby Lobby and a Hobbytown are on the way, well more or less on the way). The repair, if it is the relay, will be well under $100. If it's not the relay, we are shopping for a new fridge.

[Bone Daddy]

Bought some E9-4 to check stability once I have the fins attached.

Should get them painted today and mounted tomorrow.

Countdown on hold at T-minus 24.

[Bone Daddy]

Decided to shoot a coat of primer on the fins. Have to let the primer dry then top coat. Looks like it'll be semigloss white. This will add 48 hours or so to the countdown.

Started lettering. She is now officially christened the NRF ORIANTHI.

Also a pic with two fins in place, not glued to see how it looks. She does look a little more graceful with the fins in place.

Countdown has been reset to T-minus 120 hours and counting.

Forgot to buy superglue while at Hobbylobby buying motors. I really do need that chimpanzee to help me remember everything. This project is jut too big and complex for a single primate.

[Bone Daddy]

Hmmmm, not very exciting waiting for paint to dry so I decided to do some more lettering. Here's 2 views. I'll post more later.

[Bone Daddy]

Today's update is brought to you by Diet Dr. Thunder. If you're drinking Diet Dr. Pepper, you're paying too much.

Finally, the fins are painted and will be ready to mount tomorrow.

Countdown has been reset and started at T-minus 44 hours and counting.

All the touch up painting and detailing will not be finished, but I just want to fly the dang thing.

[Bone Daddy]

Well the Orianthi finally got her fins. I used JB Weld Qwick because I like it for fillets, which I still need to do. Still have touch up, a bit of detailing and fillets.

Mother nature has decided to continue raining on Bone Daddy's parade. It'll take days for the field to dry out enough to fly if it doesn't keep raining all weeked.

The countdown has been stopped. It will resume when weather and field conditions permit.

Tomorrow the Orianthi will be tested for stability. My guess is that she will need a fair amount of nose weight.

I decided to use the nozzle for display only. The motor hangs 1/4" and I treated the motor mount with superglue so I can wrap tape around it and the motor. This is something I've not done before, but have read about here on the forum. This place really rocks.

Here's a first look at her next to her little sister. More pix to follow.

[Bone Daddy]

I checked to launch field the other day and it looks good. I've been thinking about recovery and decided on a dual chute recovery. I've launched 2 test flights with a much smaller rocket and 2 plastic Estes style chutes. See dual chute thread under recovery forum if interested.

It looks like two 18" chutes, but I'm tempted to try 3. If so, I need to order another Top Flight 18" chute.

Countdown still stopped.

[Bone Daddy]

There is a deathly pall over the rocket lab today, we are out of Dr. Thunder. Our new refrigerator will be delivered this afternoon, so at least the next batch of Dr. Thunder will be cold.

I played with multiple chute deployment today. It was dead still at the launch site, but very humid. I had success with deploying 3 Estes style parachutes. Used Disco Bird as my test bed (picture in my rocket album).

With no wind to worry about I next loaded up Lander 1 - Orianthi's big (older) sister) with two 12" Top Flight chutes. It was magnificent. The Orianthi will definitely fly with three 18" Top Flight chutes. I have 2 on hand, so I'll need to order one today. I'll post a video later this afternonn.

I'm more than a little nervous about the fiberboard centering rings. I'm going to go back and double them up for a little extra support.

I've decided to wait until the monthly DARS launch on the 17th for Orianthi's maiden voyage.

I

[Chevis]

Well, has it flown? I read the thread with rapt attention, only to be left hanging! Will I have to pirate from your design, build and fly my own to attain some closure? (I'll probably do that anyway.)

Killer design man, I dig it. I hope the maiden flight goes well, let us know.

The maiden for my Squid Rocket (my second homegrown design) ended with a chute that never fully deployed, and a hard landing on the only patch of concrete within a quarter mile. She is fully repaired now and good as new. I need to get some pics and post a thread on it.

Good luck,
Chevis

[Bone Daddy]

Hi Chevis.

Thanks for asking about the NRF Orianthi.

She remains a flight virgin. My initial plan was to fly her on an E9-4, but I recently read here somewhere that the E9 does not like draggy rockets, which she surely is. I recently acquired a 24mm reload motor that will give me a wider selection of motors to choose from. With that said, I'm seriously considering replacing the 24mm motor mount with a 29mm motor mount so I can use single use Roadrunner motors in her. It would be a fairly simple, straight forward operation. I just need to order the parts.

When you build yours, stability is a bit of hit or miss. She is too draggy - as was her smaller, but older sister to a lesser degree - to swing test. I set the CG a little above the CG of older sister (Lander 1) to start with to be safe. She was not built with the goal to fly cool, not high, so I'm worried about a little extra, unnecessary weight. She be using three 16" chutes for recovery. I've flown many rockets now with multiple chutes with no problems and the added cool factor is unmeasurable.

The plan now calls for bringing her to the DARS August meeting for some advice on motor selection and then flying her at the August launch. She will need a pretty still day to fly.

Here's a video of Lander 1 (sister) on a C6-3 with an early test using 2 12" topflight chutes. I fly her quite a bit because she is so fun to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKJWcjhptJs

Can't wait to see what you come up with.

BD

[Scotty Dog]

Nice job. One "Q" .Why would one drink DIET DR anything.HMMMMM-OK ,kinda like me drinking NON-Alcohol Beer. Really tho- you did a great job on it. Scotty Dog

[Bone Daddy]

Thanks Scotty Dog.

Why Diet Dr. Thunder? Because it has none of the calories and all the caffeine.

Hmmmmm, it sure is a good name for a rocket isn't it?

BD

[Chevis]

The Lander 1 video looked good man, More thrust is always good for high drag or funky stability models. I keep wanting to try something like that with dual motors. But it seems to be more financially and practically efficient to just use the next size single engine. 2, C-6 = 1, D-12, 2, D-12 ~ 1, E-20 Aerotech at about the same cost.

I've got to try out the multiple chutes though, that's got to look cool coming down,

Chevis

[accooper]

Myself I would go with the e18 reload with a short delay like around 4 since I have been told that Aero-tech delays are usually longer than what the reload says.

Andrew

[Bone Daddy]

Chevis

Multiple chutes is recovery is simple to use. Check recovery forum later this week, I'll post some how to pics of how I fold them. The trick is using a riser on each chute.

AC

Thanks AC, an e-18 looks like just the ticket.

BD

[Bone Daddy]

The Orianthi made her maiden and second voyage today under a beautiful, nearly still Texas sky at the monthly DARS launch. Both flights were as beautiful as her namesake.

Both flights were on an E9-4. I added approx 30 grams of weight to the nose (wag based on cg/cp of Lander One). Flight 1 recovered with 2 16" Top Flight chutes. Flight 2 with 3. No damage on either flight.

Although I designed her with the intent to use an E9-4, I was more than a little nervous about using one after reading posts that it is not really a 2x D. I decided to go with the E9 after conferring with a few more experienced club members. Next flight will be with a 24mm reload.

The first flight I only got the take off on video. The rest of the flight I watched her fly counting aloud 1,2,3,4 - I was a tad nervous that the 4 sec delay may be too long. It was fine. The attached video then is of flight 2. (note to self: do not to point the camera directly into the sun during flight 3.)

Thanks to all of you that followed the building and flight of the NRF Orianthi.

Maybe some day I'll finish all the touch up painting that I was planning to do or maybe I'll just start building an upscale........................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIiwT0mZRdU

[qquake2k]

Great looking rocket, interesting design, awesome flight, and very entertaining build thread! Thanks for posting it all!

[Bone Daddy]

Thanks qquake2k.

I really do need to finish the touch up work on her. I watch so many build threads with envy - including yours - as the rockets are completely finished when, and usually before, they are flown.

I usually reach the point where I just want to fly the dang thing already. Maybe I need to moderate the Diet Dr. Thunder with some caffeine free diet rootbeer.

[Chevis]

Awesome, glad to see it flew successfully. I hear you with the "just fly it already" idea. I obsess over finish quality, then you have to worry about that maiden flight possibly messing up all that hard work. Congrats on getting her back safely.

Chevis

[qquake2k]

Thanks qquake2k.

I really do need to finish the touch up work on her. I watch so many build threads with envy - including yours - as the rockets are completely finished when, and usually before, they are flown.

I usually reach the point where I just want to fly the dang thing already. Maybe I need to moderate the Diet Dr. Thunder with some caffeine free diet rootbeer.

Well, the main reason I finish my rockets before I fly them is because neither of my clubs fly during the summer. So I have time. My finished rockets don't look that great up close, there are always lots of little mistakes here and there. But if it looks good on the launch pad, then I'm happy with it.

[Bone Daddy]

The weather at our last club launch, 4-16-11, was absolutely perfect. Light breeze with clear blue skies. A perfect day to fly the NRF Orianthe.

First flight was on a SU Aerotech E30, her first time on anything other than an E9. She screamed off the pad. Nice straight flight. Higher than the E9 by a long shot, but less satisfying. Just too fast. I'm in the same camp as Captain Low and Slow.

Next flight was an E9 for direct comparison. Slow up, but clearly arcing. Actually a bit underwhelming compared to the E30. So, there must be a middle ground.

Next flight will be an E11 or E15. I'm hoping that will be the sweet spot.

Bones

[Bone Daddy]

Here she is on the pad.

Recovery was with three 16" Top Flight chutes.

[JPVegh]

E11 might be in the sweet spot if you can get away with the 3 second delay. The E11 has a little higher peak thrust and a little shorter burn time and almost 4 n/s more total impulse compared to the E9. The black jack would look really cool with this model.

If 3 seconds of delay is just too short the E15 would also be a good choice but with a peak thrust of almost 29 newtons the lift off still might be a bit faster than you like. The white lightening would also look pretty cool.

BTW, I think this is a really cool looking rocket.

[Bone Daddy]

Thanks JPVegh, she is always been fun to fly and a standout in a field of 3/4FNC rockets. In the back of my mind I've been working on an upscale.

I picked up a pair of SU E20-4W at the LHS today. I also have some E19-4W reloads.

Our next club launch is the DARSTAR contest in May. Art Applewhite has mentioned he may be there. If he does, I'll have a better motor selection to choose from.

I'll post an update and hopefully some video.

Bones

[JPVegh]

I was thinking of making the trip to DARSTAR but these gas prices make me think twice. I could use the contest points. As of now it is stilll a consideration, we'll see.

[Bone Daddy]

Come on out!

You will not find a better bunch of folks to fly with.

There will be sport flying and competition flying.

The field can handle up to a G.

I predict that the C rocket glide will be the toughest competition. At the Bloomin' Open in March a few gliders were never recovered. They were last seen flying off into the proverbial sunset. I'd almost be willing to bet that a few of them are still riding the thermals in glider heaven.

I'm planning on entering 1/2A Super Roc. This will be my first competition entry since 1972 or so.

Bones

[Pem Tech]

Very cool looking....

[Bone Daddy]

Thank you.

The NFR Orianthe was a lot of fun to build and even more fun to finish*.

She looks beautiful floating back to Earth on two pink and one green parachute. She actually touches down on her fins.

Bones

* It may be that my recent Wizards were a lot of fun to build and even more fun to finish and not so much the NRF Orianthe.