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qquake2k
23rd May 2010, 01:46 PM
Well, I received my LOC-IV kit last week, that I'll be using for my level 1 cert attempt. Overall, I'm pretty impressed with the LOC Precision kit. All components appear to be of very high quality. The 38mm motor mount tube is very hefty, and it came with 1/4" plywood centering rings. The fins are 1/8" plywood, and while I would have liked them to be a little thicker, they should be adequate. All wood parts are laser cut, and seem to be of high quality plywood. The fins are attached through the pre-slotted body tube, to the motor tube.

It's a very simple rocket, which I like. As with almost all of my builds, I started with the motor mount. I drilled a 1/4" hole in the upper centering ring for the eyebolt, and epoxied it to the tube. After the epoxy set, I installed the eyebolt and washers, and covered them with epoxy. I put heavy epoxy fillets on both sides of the centering ring.

qquake2k
23rd May 2010, 01:50 PM
I decided to put a simple ejection baffle in the forward end of the motor tube. I cut two "half moons" out of 1/8" plywood, and epoxied them in opposing directions, about an inch apart. I don't know if it's necessary, as I'll be using a Nomex chute protector. But it can't hurt, and might possibly help protect the laundry.

qquake2k
23rd May 2010, 01:58 PM
Using a dowel, I put epoxy inside the body tube and glued the motor mount in place. Using the same dowel, I applied a somewhat messy fillet around the centering ring. When I epoxied the motor mount into the body tube, I had the rear centering ring on the motor tube for alignment, but didn't epoxy it yet. That way I could remove it later to apply internal fillets to the fin tabs.

I used a length of 1" aluminum angle to draw the line for the rail buttons.

I also drilled the rear centering ring, and installed 6-32 tee nuts for motor retention. After pressing them in with a vise, I carefully covered the backs with epoxy so they wouldn't be inadvertently pushed out.

qquake2k
23rd May 2010, 02:03 PM
Here you can see the rear centering ring in place to make sure the motor tube stays aligned while I epoxied in the fins. I put a couple of long 6-32 screws into the tee nuts so I could pull the centering ring out later.

Using my handy dandy homemade fin alignment tool version 2, I epoxied the fins in place. I had sanded the fin areas on the body tube for better epoxy adhesion. I tell you, with through the wall fins, pre-slotted body tube, and the alignment tool, attaching the fins was a breeze.

qquake2k
23rd May 2010, 02:08 PM
After removing the centering ring, you can see the internal fin tab and motor tube structure. I applied fillets to all the tab to tube joints. The fins should be plenty strong, especially after the rear centering ring gets epoxied in. I used Titebond wood & trim glue for the external fillets, which are just for looks, in my opinion. The fin strength will come from the tabs and internal fillets.

DAllen
23rd May 2010, 02:28 PM
I see you setup your fin alignment jig on your stove. There is no way you are married. :roll:

I can't say I've ever seen a jig like that before. Looks like it works well. Are those strings holding the BT on or something else?

-Dave

qquake2k
23rd May 2010, 02:43 PM
You're right, I'm not married. LOL

I use elastic to hold the body tubes on the guides. I tried rubber bands at first, but they're too "grippy". They didn't allow rotating the tube. The elastic works much better. Here are the threads on the two fin alignment guides I made:

http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=9694

http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=9859

Pantherjon
23rd May 2010, 02:48 PM
How long is the motor tube, and did you take into account your longest casing when installing your baffle?

Build is looking great!

qquake2k
23rd May 2010, 03:01 PM
How long is the motor tube, and did you take into account your longest casing when installing your baffle?

Build is looking great!

Thanks for the compliment! The motor tube is 20", and I'll never use more than a three grain I motor in it. The Cesaroni three grain case is only 9.2" long.

5x7
23rd May 2010, 03:48 PM
I'll never use more than a three grain I motor in it.

Famous last words! ;)

Looks like a good build, did the eye bolt come in the kit?

qquake2k
23rd May 2010, 04:06 PM
Famous last words! ;)

Looks like a good build, did the eye bolt come in the kit?

Yeah, I know! I should have said I'll PROBABLY never use bigger than an "I". :p But even a 6 grain case is only 16" long, so I should be covered. No, the kit didn't come with an eyebolt, I supplied that. It's a 1/4" x 2". The instructions say to use a loop of nylon cord and masking tape it to the inside of the body tube, then cover it with epoxy. That seemed pretty lame to me, so I went the eyebolt route, like I have on several of my mid power rockets.

qquake2k
23rd May 2010, 04:22 PM
Well, the fins are all done, and I epoxied in the rear centering ring. I also applied my signature messy fillets around the motor tube and body tube.

qquake2k
23rd May 2010, 04:28 PM
I just installed my first rail buttons. I feel like a big boy now, with my big boy rocket! :D

I measured carefully, and was able to drill into both centering rings. Of course, the 1/4" plywood centering rings made it a lot easier. I'll remove the buttons for painting, and when I reinstall them, I'll put a little epoxy in the screw holes. Now I have to epoxy the bulkhead into the payload coupler, and she'll be ready for paint.

davalf
23rd May 2010, 08:06 PM
The build looks great. I think I spoke to you on rocketry planet. Did you ever make it to Dairy Aire?

Dave

qquake2k
23rd May 2010, 08:24 PM
The build looks great. I think I spoke to you on rocketry planet. Did you ever make it to Dairy Aire?

Dave

No, I never did make it to Dairy Aire. Did you go?

davalf
24th May 2010, 12:00 AM
Yeah I made it. The weather was beautiful and there was actually a big turn out. More then I expected seeing that LDRS is so close. You should make the trip down one of these months. A lot of neat stuff flys there.

Dave

qquake2k
24th May 2010, 12:29 AM
After putting a locknut on the eyebolt, I epoxied the bulkhead into the payload coupler. I sandwiched the eyebolt between two blocks hoping the bulkhead would set level, but it was slightly off. Not enough to matter, though. Once again, I applied my signature fillets.

qquake2k
24th May 2010, 12:36 AM
Well, time for paint. I put a couple coats of white primer on the whole rocket. When it was dry, I started painting the fluorescent green. I'm not liking how the green is covering. It doesn't really show up in the photos, but it's splotchy. The fins aren't too bad, the nose cone is slightly worse, but the body tube is terrible.The rest of the rocket was going to be gloss black. My original idea was to put a green stripe towards the top of the body tube, but I just don't know now.

qquake2k
24th May 2010, 01:08 AM
Here is a color test "swatch". The color on the right is key lime. I thought it might cover better and be almost as bright, but nope. It looks like puke in person! Another idea I had was metallic blue and silver, but I don't like the blue. I also thought about black and silver, but that's too common. I really like the black and fluorescent green together. I'm so indecisive!

qquake2k
24th May 2010, 01:13 AM
Okay, here is the payload section painted black, with the fluorescent green nose cone. I really like the combination. I've noticed that fluorescent green parachutes show up really well in the sky and on the ground, and black rockets show up against clouds. I think I'll stick with this combination, and just get over the splotchy green. You won't be able to tell once it leaves the pad, anyway.

Handeman
24th May 2010, 03:14 AM
My LPRs are launched from at least 15 ft away. All I require on any rocket now is a 15ft paint job. If it looks good at 15ft. it's a good paint job. FWIW most of the guys I launch with don't even bother painting their rockets. I'm working on them though.

Yours is looking good.

Donaldsrockets
24th May 2010, 05:42 AM
I'll never use more than a three grain I motor in it.

I certainly wouldn't either, or unless I was using electronics.;)

The last time I flew mine, I went with an AT I245G motor for the 38/360 case.

Man, did that thing bolt off the pad in a hurry!!!:D

Got it back with no problems even though it took a VERY long time to come back down.

Nice job on your build and this rocket will fly very nicely on any 38mm 1, 2 or 3 grain motor.

To date, I have flown mine on:

AT

G61W (landed hard due to tangled chute - broke a fin)
G67R (nice low flight and nice but smallish red flame)
H73J (nice smokey flight and nice 3 second burn motor)
H123W (nice loud, smokey and fiery flight - 2,000 feet or so)
H148R (same as H123W except red flame and a bit harder punch off the pad)
H242T (flown twice on this motor - screams off the pad)
I245G (REALLY screams on this motor - 3,000+ feet easily)

CTI

G69 Classic (nice low flight)
H153 Classic (nice flight to maybe 2,000 feet)

qquake2k
25th May 2010, 12:44 AM
I'm starting to think I'm going to like the black and fluorescent green. Here is a shot with the payload section in place. Now for the masking.

qquake2k
25th May 2010, 01:10 AM
When I masked the first fin, I thought it might be easier to use paper. But I decided just to use 2" masking tape on the other two fins. I sure like how that Rustoleum black covers.

DAllen
25th May 2010, 02:21 AM
Rustoleum black covers great. I especially like the high contrast paint jobs (like this one) as they seem to stick out on most any background be it snow, grass, dirt, etc. Throw in a florescent orange chute and that will stick out against everything.

Looking great.

qquake2k
25th May 2010, 02:37 AM
I must say, this color combination is really growing on me. I'm thinking about putting a green stripe on the payload section. What do you guys think?

qquake2k
25th May 2010, 02:42 AM
Here is a shot without the payload section. Not nearly as impressive without the extra length, but still a good looking rocket, if I do say so myself.

cjl
25th May 2010, 03:28 AM
Very nice. I say fly it on the I800 Vmax.

http://serve.mysmiley.net/evilgrin/evilgrin0027.gif

qquake2k
25th May 2010, 03:40 AM
Very nice. I say fly it on the I800 Vmax.

http://serve.mysmiley.net/evilgrin/evilgrin0027.gif

Thanks! Actually, I already ordered my cert motor. An H143 Smoky Sam. I can't wait!

Handeman
25th May 2010, 11:17 PM
Once you get that cert, try it on a H123W. The White Lightning motors are great.

Looking good BTW! :D

cjl
25th May 2010, 11:38 PM
Once you get that cert, try it on a H123W. The White Lightning motors are great.

Looking good BTW! :D

Agreed - that's one of my favorite H motors. I certified L1 on an H123 :D

berlinetta
27th May 2010, 03:34 PM
I love the paint job. It is exactly how I painted my VB Extreme 54 last year. I will get a picture of it up here for you to see.

berlinetta
27th May 2010, 04:11 PM
Here is the picture of my VB Extreme 54.

qquake2k
28th May 2010, 01:32 AM
Here is the picture of my VB Extreme 54.

Looks awesome!

qquake2k
28th May 2010, 01:35 AM
I added a stripe to the payload section. I'm going to make a decal for this stripe that says "LOC-IV Stretch".

berlinetta
28th May 2010, 05:02 PM
I am not sure if you were able to see the green in the middle of mine, but if you were, tht is the altimeter bay. I look forward to seeing flight pictures of your kit.

qquake2k
28th May 2010, 05:11 PM
I am not sure if you were able to see the green in the middle of mine, but if you were, tht is the altimeter bay. I look forward to seeing flight pictures of your kit.

Yes, I can see the green stripe, and that makes sense that it's the avbay. I look forward to seeing flight photos too. Our club may not have another high power launch until November. Waiting is the hardest part!

berlinetta
28th May 2010, 05:26 PM
I have to get a drilled and tapped forward closure for that kit. I will have to go to METRA to fly it, because of the altitudes it can obtain. On a H123, it will hit 3,000 feet, and that is the smallest motor I would put in it.

qquake2k
28th May 2010, 05:41 PM
I have to get a drilled and tapped forward closure for that kit. I will have to go to METRA to fly it, because of the altitudes it can obtain. On a H123, it will hit 3,000 feet, and that is the smallest motor I would put in it.

Wow, that's pretty high! Is it a 54mm airframe?

DanFrank
28th May 2010, 06:31 PM
I have to get a drilled and tapped forward closure for that kit. I will have to go to METRA to fly it, because of the altitudes it can obtain. On a H123, it will hit 3,000 feet, and that is the smallest motor I would put in it.

3000' is VERY optimistic for a 4" dia rocket on a H123. You might hit 2000' but 1500' will be more likely. I have a 38mm Min dia rocket (VB Extreme 38) that hits 4000' with the H123 and it's a very light rocket.
A J350 will put my EZI-65 (4" dia) up to 4200' and the J350 is 3X the motor of the H123.
Daniel

berlinetta
28th May 2010, 07:45 PM
Wow, that's pretty high! Is it a 54mm airframe?

Yes, it is a 54mm minimum diameter airframe.

berlinetta
28th May 2010, 07:47 PM
3000' is VERY optimistic for a 4" dia rocket on a H123. You might hit 2000' but 1500' will be more likely. I have a 38mm Min dia rocket (VB Extreme 38) that hits 4000' with the H123 and it's a very light rocket.
A J350 will put my EZI-65 (4" dia) up to 4200' and the J350 is 3X the motor of the H123.
Daniel

I flew my EZI-65 on a J315 and went 3872 feet.

qquake2k
28th May 2010, 11:24 PM
3000' is VERY optimistic for a 4" dia rocket on a H123. You might hit 2000' but 1500' will be more likely. I have a 38mm Min dia rocket (VB Extreme 38) that hits 4000' with the H123 and it's a very light rocket.
A J350 will put my EZI-65 (4" dia) up to 4200' and the J350 is 3X the motor of the H123.
Daniel

It's a 54mm airframe, not 4".

qquake2k
29th May 2010, 12:13 AM
It was my son Joe's idea to put a nuclear emblem on the LOC-IV. Actually, he suggested either a biohazard emblem or the nuclear emblem. I chose nuclear, because it's a simpler emblem. I printed the emblem out, then laid it on top of a patch of masking tape that I had stuck to wax paper. I used an arch punch to punch out the center, then cut the rest of it out with an Xacto knife. I carefully peeled the masking tape stencil off the wax paper, and put it on the rocket. After masking and covering the rest of the rocket, I sprayed the emblem with white primer.

qquake2k
29th May 2010, 12:18 AM
I gave it a few coats of fluorescent green, then let it dry. I let Joe have the honor of removing the masking tape.

qquake2k
29th May 2010, 12:20 AM
And voila - a nuclear emblem! I think it looks sharp, and adds some character. Great idea, Joe!

DanFrank
29th May 2010, 12:43 AM
It's a 54mm airframe, not 4".

Sorry folks... I was not paying attention. I see those altitudes were for the VB 54 not the Loc IV.

slik_karl
29th May 2010, 01:53 AM
That look's Great!! I just put together a LOC Fantom. I have issues with nice fillets in the center rings. I use 15min epoxy to do the 1st fillet. Then I mix up 20 to 30 min epoxy and flow it into the body tube using 3/4 X 3/4 alumnium angle like a trough. I fill each end to the top of the motor mount tube(about 1/8" deep) It make the 15 min epoxy disappear and you get a smooth as glass finish.

blackjack2564
29th May 2010, 08:54 AM
Nice looking project.

Just a tip:

florescent paints tend to fade from UV rays when exposed to prolonged bright sun.
A coat of clear with UV protection will not only help this but also deepen and brighten the color intensity. Also helps smooth out splotchy looking areas.
I use a lot of fluorescent paint on my rockets.

Makes a big difference in finding them!

qquake2k
29th May 2010, 12:36 PM
That look's Great!! I just put together a LOC Fantom. I have issues with nice fillets in the center rings. I use 15min epoxy to do the 1st fillet. Then I mix up 20 to 30 min epoxy and flow it into the body tube using 3/4 X 3/4 alumnium angle like a trough. I fill each end to the top of the motor mount tube(about 1/8" deep) It make the 15 min epoxy disappear and you get a smooth as glass finish.

Thanks for the compliment! That's a good idea, but is it overkill? It would add strength, sure, but the LOC-IV's centering rings are 1/4" plywood. My fillets are ugly, but strong enough, I think. I also wonder how much weight it would add. I already overbuild, and my rockets are generally heavier than the spec weight. However, I think it might be a good idea for thinner, 1/8" centering rings, especially on a heavy rocket.

qquake2k
29th May 2010, 12:38 PM
Nice looking project.

Just a tip:

florescent paints tend to fade from UV rays when exposed to prolonged bright sun.
A coat of clear with UV protection will not only help this but also deepen and brighten the color intensity. Also helps smooth out splotchy looking areas.
I use a lot of fluorescent paint on my rockets.

Makes a big difference in finding them!

Hey, great looking rockets! This is my first use of fluorescent paint, and I really like it. I'm thinking black and red for my next rocket, which will be a Hyperloc 835. What kind of clearcoat do you use?

Pantherjon
30th May 2010, 04:51 AM
I believe Jim uses Painters Touch (http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=100) clear coat..Unless he has changed, he has spoken all sorts of praise for it in the past...

qquake2k
30th May 2010, 01:49 PM
I believe Jim uses Painters Touch (http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=100) clear coat..Unless he has changed, he has spoken all sorts of praise for it in the past...

Yeah, I looked that up online, and it is UV resistant.

qquake2k
30th May 2010, 02:00 PM
Well, I received my parrot green parachute from Rocketchutes.com yesterday. It looks like a very nice, well made chute. I like the green, not just because it matches the rocket, but because I've noticed that (to me at least) the neon green parachutes show up better in the air and on the ground. I'm still waiting for the motor, motor case, and rest of the harness, but it's getting closer to being completely done. As soon as I get the motor case, I'll be able to figure out how I'm going to do the retention.

Pantherjon
30th May 2010, 11:03 PM
Maybe you will get lucky and even get the motor case in green! I know they are rare, but I have seen a couple that were anodized green...

MarkII
31st May 2010, 03:41 AM
Just a note regarding the fluorescent paint. I couldn't tell if you applied it on top of primer, but fluorescents work best when they are applied over a coat of gloss white. (IOW, primer, then gloss white, then the fluorescent color.) I haven't used any green lately, but red fluorescents cover very evenly and the color really pops when I use this method.

Great thread; you are giving me inspiration. :D

MK

Pantherjon
31st May 2010, 02:52 PM
That is a good method Mark mentions for flourescents..Also white primer works too..So does an under coat of silver, sounds weird, but it does work..

qquake2k
31st May 2010, 02:55 PM
Just a note regarding the fluorescent paint. I couldn't tell if you applied it on top of primer, but fluorescents work best when they are applied over a coat of gloss white. (IOW, primer, then gloss white, then the fluorescent color.) I haven't used any green lately, but red fluorescents cover very evenly and the color really pops when I use this method.

Great thread; you are giving me inspiration. :D

MK

I applied it over white primer. Next time I'll try the gloss white.

MarkII
31st May 2010, 10:06 PM
Metallic paints, OTOH, are enhanced by being applied over black paint.

MK

blackjack2564
1st June 2010, 07:27 AM
What kind of clearcoat do you use?

Jon is correct. Painter's touch, a Rustoleum product, or the Rustoleum version, which ever is available when I need it.

The best visibility is their Orange/Red product. Not red, nor orange, but actually orange /red.


Nice job matching everything up. I also have several green chute's and totally agree. Easy to spot them!

As far as green motor cases......Gorilla makes them. LOL

blackjack2564
1st June 2010, 07:37 AM
As far as motor retention: simple, cheap way.

Barrel nuts, mirror clip and allen bolt or machine screw.

Cost a whopping 1.50-2.00

Mount center of hole...1/4 from edge of MM tube. 1 or 2 depending on motor size.

Sometimes a spacer or nut can be used to hold up the clip if your MM tube sticks out instead of being flush.

Get them any Ace,Tru-Value HD Lowes etc.

qquake2k
4th June 2010, 01:49 PM
As far as motor retention: simple, cheap way.

Barrel nuts, mirror clip and allen bolt or machine screw.

Cost a whopping 1.50-2.00

Mount center of hole...1/4 from edge of MM tube. 1 or 2 depending on motor size.

Sometimes a spacer or nut can be used to hold up the clip if your MM tube sticks out instead of being flush.

Get them any Ace,Tru-Value HD Lowes etc.

Yeah, I looked at the different clips at my local Ace Hardware. I installed tee nuts in the lower centering ring when I was putting the motor mount together. I received my H143SS reload (and a couple of G reloads), but I'm still waiting for the case. I have to wait until I get it to see if the tee nuts are close enough to use mirror clips. If not, I'll use either fender washers or make my own clips.

qquake2k
4th June 2010, 01:52 PM
Maybe you will get lucky and even get the motor case in green! I know they are rare, but I have seen a couple that were anodized green...

A green case would be cool, but the only Cesaroni cases I've seen are silver.

qquake2k
4th June 2010, 01:53 PM
Great thread; you are giving me inspiration. :D

MK

Thank you very much! That's a nice compliment!

qquake2k
6th February 2011, 06:40 PM
Well, I flew the LOC-IV again yesterday at the LUNAR Snow Ranch launch. This time on a Cesaroni G79 Black Bear motor. Awesome flight!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL1EFWmxnaY

o1d_dude
6th February 2011, 10:37 PM
You can hear the LOC IV hit the ground. It must have hit the only hard spot on the range head.

How about an H motor next time? :D

qquake2k
6th February 2011, 11:25 PM
You can hear the LOC IV hit the ground. It must have hit the only hard spot on the range head.

How about an H motor next time? :D

Yeah, and it did a somersault when it landed, too. LOL

The damage wasn't all the bad. The lower third or so of the fin cracked. I cut and sanded the ripped plywood away with my Dremel and several different cutting tools, and it popped back into place. Then I flooded it with epoxy. Should be good to go.