Thoughts on the N10,000

[Rocketman248]

So now that we've seen a few flights on CTI's new N10,000, what are everyone's thoughts on it.

They're seems to be an "art" to building this motor properly. If you guys had a rocket that could handle the motor, would you be willing to fly it?

I should be getting my L2 re-cert by the end of May, and I plan on starting L3 shortly after that. I intend to get the Ultimate Wildman. I have personally seen two of these rockets survive that load, and I'm itching to try it someday, but the problems we've seen with the motor itself has me nervous.

So what do you think guys? Do you have the nerves to fly one?

Also, just out of curiosity, does anyone know the retail on these badboys?

[troj]

About the only thing that would keep me from flying one is the price -- retail is up around $1,000, and possibly over. I just cannot justify that much for one flight.

There are folks who can, and more power to 'em. It's just not in my budget.

-Kevin

[bob jablonski]

The flight at Three Oaks was ugly there is more info on that flight at Rocketry planet.
Mr. Bob

[cjl]

Yes, I'd definitely fly one. Funds prevent it for now, but aside from that, I'd be willing to try it.

Oh, and I'd imagine that retail would be around $800 - that's what the other 6g loads go for.

[blackjack2564]

Well I flew one at Red Glare and would not hesitate to do it again.

Building the motor is not that big a deal. One must just really pay attention to the details.

The grains MUST be glued in to prevent "spitting" out the remains [casting tubes] towards the end of the burn, and clogging the nozzle.
There are O rings provided that go between each grain and the glue and gloves along with detailed instructions are provided.

Basically you rough up the liner with sandpaper on a stick or flapper sander on 1/4 threaded rod attached to a drill.

Dry fit the grains, then proceed.



Thoroughly saturate a grain with the glue [which is more like RTV than epoxy, rubbery when cured not hard] and insert into the liner, followed by an O ring. Repeat till all grains are in and glue the nozzle in.

We actually removed the grains and re-glued them, just to be sure the action of sliding them into the liner did not wipe off the glue and end up semi- dried in . Also double coated the grains before insertion. That is coated, then all sat aside for 5-10 minutes to let the glue soak in, then re-coated before sliding them in the liner.

The front end seal disk is already glued in when received. The glue provided has a very long pot life 1-2 hours.

We built the motors and let cure well over the 12 hour recommended time, more like 24-30 just to be sure.

Would make for one heck of a Cert flight and instant membership as an "official" Wildman. I say go for it!

[MarkH]

You could get several of your buds from your club to participate in the project and split the cost.

[stickershock23]

I think its a BAD MAMA JAMA... Heck yes I'd fly it.

You get a LIII for having a certain amount of skill. It sounds like it takes a little of that to assemble BUT nothing a LIII should not be able to handle.

Sign me up for one... or two. :D

[Rocketman248]

Well I flew one at Red Glare and would not hesitate to do it again.

Building the motor is not that big a deal. One must just really pay attention to the details.

The grains MUST be glued in to prevent "spitting" out the remains [casting tubes] towards the end of the burn, and clogging the nozzle.
There are O rings provided that go between each grain and the glue and gloves along with detailed instructions are provided.

Basically you rough up the liner with sandpaper on a stick or flapper sander on 1/4 threaded rod attached to a drill.

Dry fit the grains, then proceed.



Thoroughly saturate a grain with the glue [which is more like RTV than epoxy, rubbery when cured not hard] and insert into the liner, followed by an O ring. Repeat till all grains are in and glue the nozzle in.

We actually removed the grains and re-glued them, just to be sure the action of sliding them into the liner did not wipe off the glue and end up semi- dried in . Also double coated the grains before insertion. That is coated, then all sat aside for 5-10 minutes to let the glue soak in, then re-coated before sliding them in the liner.

The front end seal disk is already glued in when received. The glue provided has a very long pot life 1-2 hours.

We built the motors and let cure well over the 12 hour recommended time, more like 24-30 just to be sure.

Would make for one heck of a Cert flight and instant membership as an "official" Wildman. I say go for it!


Oh, I don't think I'll be using it for the cert flight. I'm hoping to do my cert flight at Red Glare 9, and if I pass, I think I wanna fly the 10K at Red Glare 10.

[troj]

Thanks for the info on the assembly process, Jim. More involved than most motors, but not horrifically so. AeroTech has one or two that require bonding the grains, as well, from what I recall.

Just requires a bit more attention to detail and planning ahead than most.

-Kevin

[Rocketman248]

Well I flew one at Red Glare and would not hesitate to do it again.

Building the motor is not that big a deal. One must just really pay attention to the details.

The grains MUST be glued in to prevent "spitting" out the remains [casting tubes] towards the end of the burn, and clogging the nozzle.
There are O rings provided that go between each grain and the glue and gloves along with detailed instructions are provided.

Basically you rough up the liner with sandpaper on a stick or flapper sander on 1/4 threaded rod attached to a drill.

Dry fit the grains, then proceed.



Thoroughly saturate a grain with the glue [which is more like RTV than epoxy, rubbery when cured not hard] and insert into the liner, followed by an O ring. Repeat till all grains are in and glue the nozzle in.

We actually removed the grains and re-glued them, just to be sure the action of sliding them into the liner did not wipe off the glue and end up semi- dried in . Also double coated the grains before insertion. That is coated, then all sat aside for 5-10 minutes to let the glue soak in, then re-coated before sliding them in the liner.

The front end seal disk is already glued in when received. The glue provided has a very long pot life 1-2 hours.

We built the motors and let cure well over the 12 hour recommended time, more like 24-30 just to be sure.

Would make for one heck of a Cert flight and instant membership as an "official" Wildman. I say go for it!



Oh, I don't think I'll be using it for the cert flight. I'm hoping to do my cert flight at Red Glare 9, and if I pass, I think I wanna fly the 10K at Red Glare 10.

Well, heck Jim. Now you've got me thinking. Why couldn't I use it for my cert flight? As long as I build the rocket correctly, and pay attention to the motor build, it's not out completely out of the question yet. It's all gonna come down to getting the funds (and my nerves) together. I'll keep ya posted!

[cjl]

I'd say go for it :D

I'm a huge fan of wild cert flights - I got my L2 on an L2375 white thunder.

[Rocketman248]

I'd say go for it :D

I'm a huge fan of wild cert flights - I got my L2 on an L2375 white thunder.

Ha! Yeah, I'd say that qualifies as a wild cert. The more I think about this, the more I like it. :dark: My first go-round, I used a Pro38 3 grain H for L1, a J350 for L2 and an M1850GG for my L3 attempt. For my L1 recert I used a Pro29 3 grain H in a very small rocket, and I'm using my first 54mm J for L2 next month. I might as well go all out for L3.

[blackjack2564]

Ha! Yeah, I'd say that qualifies as a wild cert. The more I think about this, the more I like it. I might as well go all out for L3.

How about this.....? You can borrow the hardware & one of us will supervise/oversee/help assemble the motor. That will save you buying hardware. Does that sweeten the possibilities?


You'll be just fine. Look at it like this: Cert on another motor, then fly this: cost 2 motors: Cert on this: cost 1 motor :saves you a motor!! Plus the thrill will be double.

I apologize if I'm dangling a carrot. True to Wildman fashion, 1 rocket was built right before the flight, altimeter bay and motor retention were finished seconds before the motor went in!

[ScrapDaddy]

I'd say go for it :D

I'm a huge fan of wild cert flights - I got my L2 on an L2375 white thunder.

Hmm, maybe in 6 years ill move to where you live, then maybe i will cert Level one on a I1299N-P :roll: :cheers:

[Rocketman248]

How about this.....? You can borrow the hardware & one of us will supervise/oversee/help assemble the motor. That will save you buying hardware. Does that sweeten the possibilities?


You'll be just fine. Look at it like this: Cert on another motor, then fly this: cost 2 motors: Cert on this: cost 1 motor :saves you a motor!! Plus the thrill will be double.

I apologize if I'm dangling a carrot. True to Wildman fashion, 1 rocket was built right before the flight, altimeter bay and motor retention were finished seconds before the motor went in!


So yeah, I'm pretty much decided on this. It's gonna happen. I'll be in touch. :)

[THier]

I can't justify burning up almost a thousand dollars in less than one second,, But if it were free,,, heck yea,, I'd love to see if my Smoke would handle it.

Tom

[Rocketman248]

I can't justify burning up almost a thousand dollars in less than one second,, But if it were free,,, heck yea,, I'd love to see if my Smoke would handle it.

Tom

Well, luckily I get my yearly installment of my re-enlistment bonus in October. That'll more than recoup the entire project!

[troj]

Had a nice little chat with Tim from Wildman today... The CTI N10,000 will set you back either $820 or $829, I forget which.

-Kevin

[ScrapDaddy]

Had a nice little chat with Tim from Wildman today... The CTI N10,000 will set you back either $820 or $829, I forget which.

-Kevin

Thats alot of numbers, more than mine and a few other LPR fliers budgets for a whole year!



Anyway, My opinion on a N10,000

N=Big Total Thrust
10000= High Average thrust

Conclusion= N10000 Big Motor :roll:

[Rocketman248]

Had a nice little chat with Tim from Wildman today... The CTI N10,000 will set you back either $820 or $829, I forget which.

-Kevin

Cool. I was expecting around $1000. It's a lot of money, but I guess that's the price to pay to cert in style!

I'll be ordering my Ultimate Wildman this weekend. :headbang:

[troj]

Cool. I was expecting around $1000. It's a lot of money, but I guess that's the price to pay to cert in style!

I'll be ordering my Ultimate Wildman this weekend. :headbang:

I've got an Ultimate Wildman on the way.

Question is....can I somehow wrangle an N10,000 to go in it? Somehow, I don't think the budget will permit that....

-Kevin

[cjl]

I've got an Ultimate Wildman on the way.

Question is....can I somehow wrangle an N10,000 to go in it? Somehow, I don't think the budget will permit that....

-Kevin

Go for it Kevin. You know you want to...

[MarkII]

Thats alot of numbers, more than mine and a few other LPR fliers budgets for a whole year!That's close to my total budget for the 6 years that I have been a BAR.

MK

[troj]

Go for it Kevin. You know you want to...

"Want to" versus "Can afford to" are two entirely different things.

-Kevin

[cjl]

"Want to" versus "Can afford to" are two entirely different things.

-Kevin

I'll chip in $5 :D

[ScrapDaddy]

That's close to my total budget for the 6 years that I have been a BAR.

MK

Wow, so far in rocketry, I have spent over $900, and that's for 2 years....

[WiK]

"Want to" versus "Can afford to" are two entirely different things.


I'm in for $10. Should be worth it to see you fail another L3 attempt on such a cool motor. ;)

[troj]

Wow, so far in rocketry, I have spent over $900, and that's for 2 years....

For someone your age, that's quite a chunk of change! Heck, for a lot of adults, that's a significant investment.

-Kevin

[troj]

I'm in for $10. Should be worth it to see you fail another L3 attempt on such a cool motor. ;)

Yes, but that would mean you'd have to come over here to see it....

-Kevin

[MarkII]

Wow, so far in rocketry, I have spent over $900, and that's for 2 years....The ash borers got to the money tree in my backyard a long time ago. In my first 2 years as a BAR, I spent roughly $80 total on rocketry.

MK

[ScrapDaddy]

For someone your age, that's quite a chunk of change! Heck, for a lot of adults, that's a significant investment.

-Kevin

I know, I get $75 dollars a week for working at my dads restraunt (Min Wage)
it shocked me how much I was spending once I started keeping track.

Well I am gifted In one way that I can spend that much, and cursed that I have no suporters in rocketry, except my neighbors kids.

[cjl]

I spend entirely too much on rocketry, but when you actually add it up, a surprising proportion of it (more than half) has actually been travel and hotel fees, especially for big events like LDRS.

[troj]

I spend entirely too much on rocketry, but when you actually add it up, a surprising proportion of it (more than half) has actually been travel and hotel fees, especially for big events like LDRS.

Two years ago, I added my rocketry expenses for the year, and it was around $1500, with most of that being to pay for 5 of us to go to LDRS in Kansas. A good portion of the rest was a motor purchase, most of which I still have.

-Kevin

[MarkII]

After the first couple of years, my spending on rocketry took big jumps for the next two years, and then had a big decline in '08 (for obvious reasons). It leveled off last year (hit bottom) and may start to climb back up this year. (I sure hope so.) Last year, for the first time ever, I actually attended a distant launch event (NARAM-51). I also attended NARCON '09 with my club, but the cost was minimal. I really wanted to go to LDRS 28, too, but that was just one trip too many for my budget. I did spend some money this year to attend NARCON 2010. I'm trying to see if I can possibly swing a trip to NERFF this year. I have wanted to go every year that it has been held, but one thing or another has always kept me away.

$900 in your first 2 years? What on Earth did you spend it on? The difference between money earned as a kid and wages earned as an adult is that, for an adult, it isn't all "play" money. In fact, very little, if any, of it can be set aside for entertainment. $75 for a 40 hour work week was what I earned when I started working for the State of New York some years ago. I was already married then, and out of that paycheck I had to pay rent, gas and insurance for my car, food, utilities, laundry, and the cheapest clothes that I could find in the cheapest discount store in town or at the Salvation Army Thrift Shop. I never ate lunch because I couldn't afford to buy it nor could I even afford to buy the food to pack my own. No money left for things like scale kits, reloadable motors or iPhones. (OK, the last two things didn't exist then, but you get the point.)

MK

[Rocketman248]

So, I just ordered the Ultimate Wildman and a bunch of supplies. They said everything should ship on Monday. I'll post some pics when it gets here. :)

[cjl]

I really wanted to go to LDRS 28, too, but that was just one trip too many for my budget.

That's too bad :(

LDRS 28 was really nice, once the rain dried up (a few too many trees for my taste, but lots of incredible launches nonetheless). It was in your neck of the woods too.

[cjl]

So, I just ordered the Ultimate Wildman and a bunch of supplies. They said everything should ship on Monday. I'll post some pics when it gets here. :)

Excellent. I look forward to seeing pics of the build :D

[troj]

So, I just ordered the Ultimate Wildman and a bunch of supplies. They said everything should ship on Monday. I'll post some pics when it gets here. :)

Very nice! I'm sure you made Tim very happy. :)

Do you plan to mount an electronics in the nose? I'll be making a BeeLine GPS mount in mine.

What do you plan for motor retention?

-Kevin

[Rocketman248]

Very nice! I'm sure you made Tim very happy. :)

Do you plan to mount an electronics in the nose? I'll be making a BeeLine GPS mount in mine.

What do you plan for motor retention?

-Kevin

It wasn't Tim who took the order, but I'm sure he'll hear about it. :)

I do plan to use tracking for this. I'm going to do it like they show in the instructions for the Extreme Wildman. Foam in a length of all-thread to hold the bulkhead, and run a tube down the side of the cone for the antenna. The instructions are on the website.

I ordered the Aeropack retainer for this one.

I already have most of the stuff I need left over from my last L3 attempt. All I need now is a second altimeter, and small stuff like U-bolts and quicklinks.

[troj]

I do plan to use tracking for this. I'm going to do it like they show in the instructions for the Extreme Wildman. Foam in a length of all-thread to hold the bulkhead, and run a tube down the side of the cone for the antenna. The instructions are on the website.

I just looked; I'm not fond of the idea of foam holding things in place. Let me see if I can find pictures of how I did mine....


I ordered the Aeropack retainer for this one.

I plan to do the same

-Kevin

[Mike Di Venti]

I'm already saving up for another N10000! I can't let one shred get in the way of flying a N10000 successfully. The Ultimate Wildman kit will be hear in June. Hopefully fo RG 10, if not RG11 for sure.

I'm also looking at the N5800! 96.7% N motor!! In 4" hardware!! That might bust MDRA waiver though. I'll have to do some sims first.

Tom,
You spend that much when you fly your Harpoon!!(non ex loads)
I stopped figuring on how much I spent on rocketry items. It's too scary!

[Rocketman248]

A quick sim on that bad boy comes out to just over 20,000 ft at Mach 1.8! Need to take a trip out west for that one.

[Mike Di Venti]

You did an Ultimate sim? Cool.
MDRA's waiver is only to 16500' I think.

[cjl]

I'm also looking at the N5800! 96.7% N motor!! In 4" hardware!! That might bust MDRA waiver though. I'll have to do some sims first.


Yeah - I'm eyeballing that one for a flight this October in my L3 rocket. Sims show ~30k or so :D

[MaxQ]

[QUOTE=blackjack2564;96539]How about this.....? You can borrow the hardware & one of us will supervise/oversee/help assemble the motor.
QUOTE]



Help assemble the motor???

Isn't the objective of a "cert" flight: building the rocket, AND the motor....?


Not that RM248 needs much help...since he's been down this road before.

Go Navy!

[Mike Di Venti]

Yeah - I'm eyeballing that one for a flight this October in my L3 rocket. Sims show ~30k or so :D

That's definately a desert trip for me to launch that high.
MDRA has the best waiver for me to get to. I'm not so sure about the launches down in the Carolina's or Florida(their waiver max)

[Pantherjon]

So, I just ordered the Ultimate Wildman and a bunch of supplies. They said everything should ship on Monday. I'll post some pics when it gets here. :)

Most excellent! :D The UPS guy is going to hate you!:roll: When mine came, it came in 2 HUGE boxes!:eek:..Sad thing is, you will probably get yours built before I get mine done!:p:roll:Probly both you AND Kevin!..

I did do a dry fit of everything out in the front yard, and it is IMPRESSIVE! Does that count for anything?..LOL..

[troj]

You did an Ultimate sim? Cool.
MDRA's waiver is only to 16500' I think.

Argonia, KS (Airfest!) has a waiver that will easily handle that combination.

FWIW, Ultimate Wildman on the N10K sims to under 20K; Mach 1.5ish.

-Kevin

[jsdemar]

That's definately a desert trip for me to launch that high.
MDRA has the best waiver for me to get to. I'm not so sure about the launches down in the Carolina's or Florida(their waiver max)

Even in the desert, over 25K takes a little extra FAA paperwork. 50Kft is pretty reasonable for the field size here. Elevation about 4700ft. (Note: not the same site as where NSL will be in one month).

http://photos.thrustgear.com/cpg/albums/FLARE08April/normal_Team1g.jpg

Mountains in the background are several miles away. I-10 is several miles in the other direction.

-John

[cjl]

That's definately a desert trip for me to launch that high.
MDRA has the best waiver for me to get to. I'm not so sure about the launches down in the Carolina's or Florida(their waiver max)

That's one nice thing about the local club here. Standing waivers to 20k AGL, call in to 35k.

[blackjack2564]

[QUOTE=blackjack2564;96539]How about this.....? You can borrow the hardware & one of us will supervise/oversee/help assemble the motor.
QUOTE]



Help assemble the motor???

Isn't the objective of a "cert" flight: building the rocket, AND the motor....?


Not that RM248 needs much help...since he's been down this road before.

Go Navy!


It really takes an extra pair of hands to build this one. Just to hold the liner while the other sticks the glue soaked grains in.

[blackjack2564]

It wasn't Tim who took the order, but I'm sure he'll hear about it. :)



That would be Heather that took your order, she told me right after . Congratulations on a fine choice. The glue supplies came in Fri. afternoon. She asked me to let you know.

That NC is so large I just usually foam the tip 1/3, pack crumpled up newspaper or peanuts up another 1/3 or close to the shoulder, then foam the rest. Just trying to make it rigid so a hard hit won't flex it and crack or pop off any gel-coat.

[Rocketman248]

That would be Heather that took your order, she told me right after . Congratulations on a fine choice. The glue supplies came in Fri. afternoon. She asked me to let you know.

Sweet. I've got all these L3 plans, and I still haven't built my L2 rocket.:rolleyes: Now I can start on that.

It'll be a little while before I get started on the Ultimate. After I get my L2, I'm going to join TRA. There are a lot more TAP members than NAR L3CC members around here. My first L3 attempts were tricky to plan around my L3CC's schedule.

[troj]

It'll be a little while before I get started on the Ultimate. After I get my L2, I'm going to join TRA. There are a lot more TAP members than NAR L3CC members around here. My first L3 attempts were tricky to plan around my L3CC's schedule.

I may well use the Ultimate for my next L3 attempt, and save Snot for the morning after flight. :)

Options are good!

Hey, Jim? Tell Tim I'm gonna break the rules and use Fiberglast System 2000 epoxy on mine.... I'm like that.

Kinda anxious to get my hands on it, now!

-Kevin

[blackjack2564]

I
Hey, Jim? Tell Tim I'm gonna break the rules and use Fiberglast System 2000 epoxy on mine.... I'm like that.



-Kevin

Oh yeah.........like he NEVER breaks them? LOL:confused2: Seems I remember something built with wire ties and foam.

[troj]

Oh yeah.........like he NEVER breaks them? LOL:confused2: Seems I remember something built with wire ties and foam.

Rocket Challenge! I remember that!

-Kevin